An Interesting Thought! Hen and Humu, You May Want to Turn Away...

[dudelovenext]

So I was reading The Stranger today. I came across a some replies to a 15-year old girl's sexual dilemmas. Here was one of the responses:

I was pregnant when I was 15. It sucked, so my best advice to a young woman would be: MASTURBATE OFTEN. No one tells teenage girls that they have the ability to get themselves off better than any boy could. Learn about your body, find your clitoris, and experiment! A lot of teenage-girl angst could be bypassed if all parents bought their daughters a vibrator for their 13th birthday. I know my girl is getting one. -The Baroness

I believe it's been brought up "how would you talk to your child/sibling/whoever about the birds and the bees". Just how far would you go to make sure they have a proper education? It's a pretty relevant question to those of us with young children or siblings.

Now, I like to think of myself as a (mostly) mature, (halfway) enlightened kinda guy. I would like to think that when/if my little sister asks about sex, I'm not gonna turn beet red and mumble. Would I get her a vibrator for her birthday?

That's really a tough one. I think that I'd have to have a pretty open talking relationship with my little sister first. Make sure she understands just what it is and what sex is. *thinks* So yes, I think I would. However, that is a few years off, as so far my little sister has not made any mention of being interested in sexual topics.

EDIT: Thinking about this, I'm not so sure if I could...something like a vibrator is different than a condom. Gah, not really sure now...like I said, it would really depend on the talking relationship I had with her.

Heh, discuss!

Comments

[tak178.livejournal.com]

*steps onto soapbox*

Personally, this is appalling, but you know where I come from on this one. While I do believe in the concept of sex ed, I do not believe in giving children(and that's what a 15 year old is...) the "tools" as it were to "experiment". This is wrong at best, harmful at worst.

Your sexuality is NOT a toy...it is meant between you and the one you love. There is no intimacy being discussed by this "columnist"(and I use the work loosely)...just self gratification. The "Me" Generation is out in force again...and it's sad to watch the decline of our country, exemplified in just a few short sentences.

*steps off of soapbox*

~Dave

[dudelovenext.livejournal.com]

The fact is, that children (by definition anyone under 18) do think about sex. I think my youngest sexual memory was as early as seven.

Do you have any studies that show something like this would be harmful?

I don't think anyone ever said it was a toy. People have the sexual urge. It's not just going to go away because "it's not right". But I think the idea here is to give those that are coming into their sexuality the knowledge and tools (condoms would also apply) to make smart decisions.

As Sarah's big brother, while a lot of the raising rests on my mom and stepdad's shoulders, I still have a responsibility to see that she isn't pregnant when she's 15.

[moombachan.livejournal.com]

[dudelovenext.livejournal.com]

Heh, well, my mom never bought me lube or condoms or anything...but then, she also knew how my dating life was. Not that she would've anyway. `^_^

That's a good point, but I think that would be one of the points that should be gotten across, that it'll feel good, but there are lots of consequences (STDs, relationships, pregnancy) to having sex as opposed to masturbating.

It sounds to me that the woman in the article had some early and harsh lessons. I'd have to be very close and open with my little sister for me to give her something like that. But like I said to Dave, whatever it takes to make sure that I don't become and uncle too soon. `^_^

[katana22.livejournal.com]

ok, I'm scared now

[dudelovenext.livejournal.com]

No one ever said raising kids was easy. `^_^

[quetz.livejournal.com]

No, she won't mention it, that is one of those Topics That We Do Not Discuss. Think about it: Did your parents say anything to you when you were a kid? (mine didn't, because I didn't notice girls until I was 19) If anything is going to be said, it would best be said by an older sibling of the same sex (as someone who has been there and done that).

In the case of a 15-year-old, though, who is curious and exploring, someone needs to say something, before she gets into serious trouble. I don't think buying her a vibe is the answer, but it would be a good idea to leave some books on sexuality around where she could find & read them; It's better than getting all your advice from Cosmo.

[dudelovenext.livejournal.com]

Wow, that's an excellent point I hadn't thought of. Sadly, the maturity level of my two step-sisters (21 and 19, I believe) are no where near to what I would trust with a talk like that. And as cool of a mom that I have, I'm not sure if I can see her giving Sarah "the talk". I suppose it would be much easier if Sarah was a boy or if I was a girl...

No, but then, you have to think: a lot of people of our parent's generation weren't exactly open about their sexuality, were they? I think they were in a "let's let the schools handle it!" kind of mindset; it was much too embarrassing.

Actually, I think your second paragraph makes excellent sense. A book would be best, and if they have any questions on top of that....that's when "the talk" happens.

[questionz.livejournal.com]

my mom was very open with me, even before i was a prepubescent angst machine. i think that it really helped me too, i was a fairly curious child in all things. now, i feel very secure in my sexuality, i dont feel repressed or perverse. i wish more parents would be open, i real believe that would be the most helpful thing.

[kdana.livejournal.com]

aww you never answered THIS post...
http://www.livejournal.com/users/kdana/289545.html

I hope you feel better soon!!

[dudelovenext.livejournal.com]

Replied. :)

Thank you! I'm feeling a bit better...if my throat would just get better, I'd be okay. My congestion is mostly gone.

I haven't seen you and the OLOTEAS gang in forever. I should try and make it to the next one!

[thestupidguy.livejournal.com]

Humu has a kid??

[dudelovenext.livejournal.com]

You only said that because you know she won't be looking at this.

...

[elsmd.livejournal.com]

Humu has my kid.

LOL

[hentainobaka.livejournal.com]

Bring on the toys!

Re: LOL

[dudelovenext.livejournal.com]

Heh, you're one of the few that didn't have a very passionate rebuttel to this...or at least a different kind of passionate! :)

[kawaiijewel.livejournal.com]

Well I hope you're starting to feel better by now.. Zinc is great, ok? Lay off the Iron though, it likes to compete with other metals and you'll need all the Zn you can get. :)

Oh and .. yeah.. interesting lil post here btw..hm. ;)

J

[dudelovenext.livejournal.com]

I woke up this morning and, aside from a slight amount of congestion and a slightly sore throat, I'm feeling pretty good for the most part.

Hmmm...zinc, huh? It sounds like I'd have to take a supplement then. I don't usually drink milk when I'm sick since that doesn't help with the congestion...and most oother zinc-rich foods are meats like liver or lamb.

Hhe, isn't it? It's a lot more controversial than I thought. I like to take sexually-orientated topics and see what people say and discuss about them.

And thanks! *hugs*

[bandgeeksrock.livejournal.com]

13-year olds don't need vibrators. i'm sure they can get off just fine by themselves.

second, a vibrator will not solve anything. are you willing to sit down and teach her how to use it or discuss sexuality that in depth with such a young mind? someone of that age (no matter how smart) is most likely not that mature yet. they may be experimenting with themselves, but they don't fully understand what they're up to.

i think the best approach is to be open with them and to answer their questions as they're ready. if your kid/sister feels comfortable discussing these things with you, she should be fine on her own. she'll get a vibrator of her own eventually.

also, i would NEVER want to be getting a vibrator from a brother or mom. MAYBE a sister, if i was older (not 13). if i was a guy, i wouldn't want mom buying me condoms either... maybe if i was sexually active, but it's still something you don't want to discuss with her.

lastly, i don't think it would be appropriate for a male figure to give a vibrator/sex advice to a little girl. nothing against guys, but women know their bodies best, and i'd rather seriously talk about masturbation and all that fun stuff with another female. sure i'll joke with guys about those things, but unless you're my boyfriend (and you actually want to know), those kinds of things are kept private. :)

[dudelovenext.livejournal.com]

Can they, though? I guess I would have to find out (I'm sure there's been a study) on how easy it is for a girl to get off between hands alone or with a vibrator. I could've sworn I read somewhere that many women go through life without having an orgasm until they're much older (though that might just be because they don't know what they're doing; I think guys have it easy that way).

Sure. Though we (my family and I) don't throw a ton of information her way and overload her senses, I don't think we really shield her from stuff either. It's actually been shown that having sex ed at a very early age is much healthier than waiting. I believe it was my psych teacher that explained the European sex ed system. If I remember correctly, they teach it every couple of years, starting from when they're very young (though I will fully admit, I think I would be too embarrassed to sit Sarah down right now and explain things to her). Americans have a very puritanical view on sex and the general consensus is to wait as long as possible. Example: My teacher asked in class if we all knew how AIDS was transmitted. Most people knew most of the methods...almost NO ONE (including myself, and you'd think with AIDS and my dad I would've known!) knew that it could be transmitted via breast milk. All I'm (and it seems the woman who replied up above in my original post) are saying is that a vibrator is just another facet of sexual education.

That being said, however, I think I agree with the other Stef's response. Give 'em a book (I have just the book in mind (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1885535678/103-8893628-1295819?v=glance)) and if they have any questions, go from there. My mom comes from an older generation that, while she can talk about sex, I think it's something she would like to avoid. And my two step sisters (Sarah's half sisters) are no where near the level of maturity that I would leave it in their hands...if they were, I would have them deal with it.

I would've been very embarrassed to have my mom hand me a condom, but hey, that's also part of being part of raising a child; there are going to be embarrassing moments (like explaining the birds and the bees).

Your last paragraph brings up something I didn't think of. I think it would be more appropriate to have both my mom and step dad talk to her. I believe there's insight from both the male and female perspective that would be good to know. However, if there is one person over another that Sarah would be more comfortable talking to, then by all means that person alone could handle it.

[relucesco.livejournal.com]

I dunno what to think about that. I think that it's entirely possible that she wasn't matured enough to be going about with that activity; not that she wasn't old enough, per se, because let's face it -- teenagers are having sex younger and younger now. I know kids who have lost their V cards at age 13 (although fortunately those kids are extremely mature and I actually find it awkward calling them 'kids' when they've got that kind of intellect. Age is just a number and it's the individual that matters, to me, unless you're physically hurting someone/yourself who hasn't gone through puberty yet or something.).

The writer sounds like they didn't take enough precautions. It's pretty hard to get pregnant if you go through all the precautions, isn't it? I'm a virgin, so I don't know, but I do know that most 15 year olds and the like only get pregnant because they were being dumbasses and not using a condom or a pill or, at the very least, a patch.

I could also add that she spelled the word 'masturbate' incorrectly, so that's sort of a give away that they're not exactly... I dunno. Intelligent? XD I am a grammar nazi, so sue me... but it's just another small detail.

I'd fucking kill myself if someone in my family gave me a vibrator, end of the story. :D

I think that if I had a younger sibling or someone like that, they probably wouldn't come to me for sex advice in the first place since I'm inexperienced in almost every damn aspect of everything, but if that case WERE to present itself I would tell the kiddo that, from everything I've learned from both sex ed &c. and peers (I'm the only one of my friends except maybe one other person who has not gotten their first kiss XD), sex isn't something you just fuck around with. No pun intended.

[dudelovenext.livejournal.com]

*nods* Yeah, sounds like she wasn't very educated at all. And her response could honestly be over-compensation for her lack of education.

Oops, my bad, I copied the article wrong. I corrected the spelling (it was late at night when I wrote this!). `^_^

Wow, seriously? What about condoms? Or a "how to" guide? I think it also depends on what kind of communication you have going on with your parents. I can't say since I don't know what kind of talking relationship you have with your parents. However, I always had a pretty open relationship with my mom (because of...complications, I told her about the time I lost my virginity), so I felt I could go to her with that kind of stuff.

Well, and here's the thing: I'm 15 years older than my sister. While I'm sad that I don't get to be around her that much, I would like to think in those things that she might be too embarrassed to talk to mom or dad about, she could come to me. As I've stated above, she does have older stepsisters...but I would rate their maturity level around a 10-year old's. Heh, and yes, it's not something to just fuck around with. At least at this point in our lives, I don't think she should be having kids before I do. `^_^

[questionz.livejournal.com]

I think most teenage girls decide to have sex or fool around , not because they think it feels so great for their own pleasure, but to fit in, to think that they are sexy, cool, wild popular etc., to please boys and get attention. These are all needs that cannot be fulfilled with a viberator.
When I was a teenage girl, I was way more concerned with what people thought of me than if I could get off or not (side note: which I couldn’t by myself, and all my girlfriends at the time agreed with me (we were 15-16). I am pretty sure that teenage girls have a very difficult time getting an orgasm, vibrator or no, its all about appearances)

[quetz.livejournal.com]

It is vitally socially important for most teenage girls to be able to catch a boy...and sexuality is just the primary method of doing so.

[kittykitsune.livejournal.com]

Hmmmm... you should already know how I'm going to answer this.

Based on my past experiances (being molested/raped at a young age) I completely disagree with this. I became sexual way to fast and that was out of my hands. It's screwed me up for life.... I have always felt, because of my circumstances, that masturbation is wrong hence why I don't personally do it.

Giving a child a vibrator would give only give them the opportunity to grow up too fast sexually and personally, I don't think that's right.

Now, this doesn't mean I'm not going to talk to my kids about sex.... get them on birth control/condoms but as for giving them sexual toys... that's a bit out of line and could be taken the wrong way. Imagine your 13 year old daughter going to school "My Mom/Dad bought me a vibrator for my birthday." Would you want to deal with the consequences of that?

[dudelovenext.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that was what I figured. I think it would be that way from anyone coming from a history of sexual abuse.

The difference is, you had a very negative sexual experience. Someone forced that upon you. With a vibrator it's "you can use it, or you don't have to. You have the choice".

Children grow up fast, and usually much faster than parents want them to. There is a time to let them enjoy being kids, to be innocent and not have to worry about everything else out there. But there's also a time when they need to learn so they're not unprepared.

To your last paragraph, I think that during the talk, a need for discretion is something that would really need to be made clear. As long as abuse is not involved (which it isn't), how a child is raised is a matter strictly for the family.

Simpsons

[fearless-son.livejournal.com]

"I never thought I'd have to talk to you about the birds and the bees, but I guess it can't be avoided now. Bart, do you know why your mother and I sleep in the same bed?"
"Because we're poor?"
"That's right, and we're poor because we have kids. And the biological process by which a man and a woman make children is..."

Re: Simpsons

[dudelovenext.livejournal.com]

*LOL* Proof positive that The Simpsons can be linked to just about anything. :)

[fearless-son.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, well my parents told me the most basic "fact" of it when I was about six or seven. I thought that it was totally disgusting and vowed never to do it.

That vow has haunted me ever since. I was a very serious little child...

Anyway I had some basic sex-ed in forth grade, then again in seventh grade, then again in twelfth grade. Somewhere along the line my parents bought me and my sister some unisex "Facts of Life" books in case we ever needed some reference. I told my parents that they were wasting their money.

On the other hand, I think that I got into sexuality too late. I had access to information from the beginning, but I resisted it to the last. It was only a few years ago when I realized that, determined as I was, I could never truly run away from it, just delay it catching up to me. I had to stand and fight. However I feel developmentally "behind" my peers in this regard, and that has really screwed me over, socially. I try to catch up, but when one is this far behind...

[dudelovenext.livejournal.com]

So you never used the books at all?

Why do you think you resisted it so much?

[namastegiggles.livejournal.com]

Books rock. If she is to embarrassed to fully talk to you , or thinks of a question later, she has reference material. It'll give her information and privacy. You may want to get her more than one book too, maybe one geared specifically towards teens and another with different people describing their personal experiences. The latter would give her many perspectives and would also show her that there isn't one norm for everyone--we all vary greatly!

Don't forget websites!

http://www.babeland.com/home/
Our local pro-sex shop with an emphasis on education, safe sex, and very feminist.

www.bust.com Has a whole set of links, but some may be a bit too much for her. However, you could check out their sex ed links yourself and see if any would be good for her. Maybe a few erotica links/naked pictures links too? I realize that she can get links on her own, but you could provide her with some quality ones.

Also, you could look up some links that might help prep you for the big discussion, if you feel nervous.

I'd say don't rush out and buy her a toy. But if she starts asking/hinting about such things, then let her know that you will take her to Toys in Babeland (I think females and especially younger females would be more comfortable there--it's all women employees, more geared towards women, etc) or go and buy her something on your own (if she's too embarrassed to go herself).

I'm going to burst the vibrator myth here: I've never gotten off from a vibrator. Hands work just fine. Women have been masturbating for centuries and doing fine. Many women get off with just their hands. Heck, I've o-ed a few times with no physical stimulation at all. Not to say that toys are bad, however, they aren't a necessity. Your imagination is really the stimulator!

ps What do you plan on doing if your little sister tells you she's bi/pan/homosexual? Or even transgendered? I'm sure you'd handle it great. Just something to think about now, so if that is the case, you can offer her your full support!

[quetz.livejournal.com]

I was fortunate in that, by the time I started wondering about sexuality, I was old enough that I could access all kinds of resouces...but what kinds of books, websites, and other resources exist for someone who's in their early teens? Any recommendations?

This country has such puritanical attitudes towards sex (as opposed to, say, violence) that it could be difficult for teens to find the resources they need, geared specifically towards people their age, even though early teens are sexually active.

[thestupidguy.livejournal.com]

"A lot of teenage-girl angst could be bypassed if all parents bought their daughters a vibrator for their 13th birthday."

IMO, the Baroness's advice is bad, both from a moral and a biological standpoint.

Whether or not that's immoral is a moot point since frequently masturbating doesn't make it less likely that someone will engage in sex at any given point. It's naive to think that encouraging a 15 year old girl to masturbate is going to keep her sex drive in check.

[lhcat.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with Stu here. That's not too horribly surprising, considering I usually agree with him. ;)

I've known plenty of girls who masturbated at the age of 15 (and admitted it) who had sex well before they graduated from highschool. Some became pregnant before their highschool career was up.